Emergency condition of the access shield. We analyze and eliminate the causes

Faulty electrical wiring poses a strong danger to people and structures, because in most cases it is a source of fire. In the event of a fire from electrical wiring, the first thing they try to find out is who is to blame for this and at whose expense it is necessary to carry out restoration work. Next, we will look at the main causes of wiring fires and how to protect against this dangerous situation.

Causes of ignition of electrical wiring

In case of neglect of safety measures in the room, a fire may occur. Also, electric shock can lead to serious consequences. We will consider the most popular causes of ignition of the wiring below.

Technical difficulites. It is important to monitor the condition of all network wiring, as well as their connections. This includes the main and switchboard, because it is in such places that the main cable lines are supplied, and various protective devices are installed. All devices must be in working order. Back-up protection should be installed in the switchboards in advance, which can be used in case of some dangerous situation (for example, protection against short circuit). Basically, ignition of electrical wiring is possible due to poor contact, therefore, special attention should be paid to the junctions of the electrical wiring. For safety and reliability during operation, it must be installed in an apartment, in production or in workshops, especially where there is high humidity.

Smoothly moving from one reason to another, it should be noted that often the ignition of the wiring in the apartment occurs due to the fact that incorrectly selected circuit breakers. The fact is that the purpose of the machine in the shield is to instantly work in case of a short circuit or overload in the network. So, with regard to overload, when choosing a circuit breaker, you need to pay attention to the fact that the rating of the machine corresponds to the cross section of the wiring to protect which it is installed. Otherwise, when overloaded, the cable in the wall will start to melt and may catch fire, and the machine will not work, or it will work when it happens, which may be too late and still cause a fire in the house or apartment.

Incorrect or unsafe operation. Each device has a load limit. The cause of the fire may be the connection of various splitters or extension cords to the same outlet. Damaged plugs or appliance cords are a great danger. If a short time after turning on some electrical appliance in the network, the plug or splitter heats up, this means that there is a problem in the contact connections.

Lighting group fault. Lighting devices eventually become the cause of the outbreak. For example, it is necessary to protect an incandescent lamp from splashes, and a switch from moisture.

Technical failures include connection of aluminum wire with copper. Even if everything is connected correctly and the neutral wires are connected with a special bar, a fire in the wiring can occur. For such connections, a bar made of brass material is not suitable, because over time it oxidizes and aluminum with brass heats up, which consequently leads to a fire. If such a compound was inside a combustible plastic shield, then the consequences would be even worse, because instead of preventing combustion, it begins to melt and support the hearth. It is possible to connect aluminum with copper, if it is impossible to perform electrical wiring in any other way. However, the connection must be made either through special or using special sleeves.

Another reason is poor quality and old sockets. After all, the plug of the electrical appliance itself must fit tightly into the outlet. If the plug gets hot or sparks, change the socket immediately. It is better to pay a little more, but buy a quality outlet. Although they may look the same, in cheap models, the plastic heats up and lights up, and the contacts do not have compression springs. About that, we told in a separate article.

The next reason is old aluminum wiring. In old multi-storey buildings, switchboards are located in the stairwell. Often they are in a very neglected state, so there is a particular risk of fire. Also, in most old houses, the electrical wiring has never changed, which means that it has already outlived its usefulness, the insulation becomes unusable, and, accordingly, does not protect against a short circuit in the wall. To this we can add that now much more electrical appliances are used than before, therefore the load increases on the old wires, which can be aluminum and withstand small loads.

Today there is a problem low-quality electrical goods. These products do not withstand the load declared by the manufacturer. It is often necessary to troubleshoot a house or apartment that has only recently been rewired. After about a couple of years, the cable insulation cracks and begins to crumble, and this inevitably leads to a fire.

Visually, some of the causes of a wiring fire are discussed in the video:

Fire protection measures

Various protective measures should be taken to keep the wiring in good condition, such as running it under plaster and not under flammable building materials. As for the shields, it is better to choose them from metal or non-combustible plastic - this will serve as protection against the spread of fire. We have covered this in detail in a separate article.

It is also important to do at least once a year: look at all wire connections in sockets, switches, junction boxes and in the electrical panel itself. Timely detection of poor contact and melted wires is one of the effective ways to protect against fire.

If the wiring is old, be sure to replace it with a new one at the next repair. Cracked insulation, old sockets designed for a lower current load, plugs in the shield. All this can lead to a fire at any moment. If it is not yet possible to spend money on, be sure to install machines and RCDs in the shield. They will save you from a fire at the right time. It is also desirable to install a fire RCD for 100 or 300 mA at the input in wooden houses, as an additional measure of protection.

The fire RCD is described in detail in the video:

In addition to all this, it is important to know and in no case repeat, which we wrote about separately. For example, a poorly made twist can cause a short circuit and further ignition of the electrical wiring. Therefore, twists do not need to be done at all.

And of course, if the apartment smells of burnt wiring, and you yourself are not able to find and fix the problem, be sure to call an electrician, after turning off the machines in the shield.

How and how to extinguish a burning electrical wiring

To extinguish burning wiring, it is necessary to use special effective fire extinguishing agents. It is necessary to understand well what to do, how to extinguish, what should be the procedure and which fire extinguisher is applicable when extinguishing wiring.

The first thing you need to know is that if the wiring is energized, it is strictly forbidden to extinguish it with water. Due to the fact that water is an ideal conductor of current, the one who pours water will definitely receive an electric shock. If it is possible to turn off the mains power, then you can use sand, water or a fire extinguisher. However, in the case where it is impossible to turn off the power, only a class E fire extinguisher is used. The class is marked on the fire extinguisher body.

To extinguish burning electrical wiring, carbon dioxide, aerosol and powder extinguishing agents are used. They are used to extinguish under voltage up to 1000 volts. If the voltage is higher, de-energize the network. Under no circumstances should an air-foam or chemical-foam fire extinguisher be used for live fires. In more detail about that, we told in a separate article.

So we examined why there is a fire in the wiring in the apartment and how to protect yourself from this dangerous situation. We hope that the information provided was useful for you and made you think about the implementation of a number of recommendations!

You probably don't know:

I won't give statistics because I don't know them. But I personally observed several fires in the access electrical panels of buildings with a height of five to nine floors. Needless to say, the show is not for the faint of heart. What are at least grannies with buckets of water in a hurry to extinguish an electrical installation! And the whistle of melted PVC insulation falling down the riser (probably, many in childhood burned plastic bags, listening to the drops whistle, and now imagine the height of your height and the height of a nine-story building, the whistle is creepy and intimidating)! Not to mention the consequences - a week-long lack of electricity in the apartment, the smell of burning and a sooty ceiling.
So, let's look at the reasons.

There is, in fact, only one reason. It consists, as the classics of Marxism said, in the mismatch of abilities with needs.

For each house, for each entrance in it and, of course, for each apartment, a strictly defined amount of power consumption is allocated when supplying engineering communications. Power (in this case, electrical power) is measured in watts. AC power is calculated as follows: Voltage (volts) x Current (amps) x Cosine fit (in residential buildings, it is usually not taken into account, because there are no three-phase power, electric motors and fluorescent lamps, however, I would advise it taken as 0.8-0.9, usually it is taken as 0.7).
Further, if we, for example, wanted to install a hob at home, the total power consumption of which is approximately 7000 watts, based on the formula, we understand that it consumes 220xPower current 0.8 = 7000, that is, we divide 7000 by 220 and also divide by 0 ,eight. We get about 40 amps.

And now the fun begins.

There is such a thing - the cross section of the wire. This is the area that each vein has in cross section, and, in no case, the diameter. The vein, as a rule, is round, we calculate its area from the school formula Pi Er square, or multiply 3.14 by the radius of the wire, before that squared (multiplied by itself, if anyone forgot, while the radius is half the diameter, and the diameter can be measured with a ruler, but it is better, of course, with a caliper). But, for the convenience of users who do not have calipers, the cable marking is applied to its insulation (for example, the marking of the VVG cable (this is the designation of the insulation material) 2x2.5 means that you have a cable in front of you (a cable is several connected insulated conductive cores (wires) , and a cable with two cores (wires), the cross section of each of which is 2.5 square millimeters.

Each current value corresponds to a certain wire cross section, and at the same current strength, the copper wire will be of a smaller cross section than aluminum, since these metals have different electrical resistance characteristics, on which the cross section depends. We mention that the best wires in terms of electrical characteristics are made of platinum and gold.

For each apartment, for example, in a panel 12-storey building built before 1990, without gas, just 7000 watts are allocated. And in Khrushchev - even less (look in your dashboard, what kind of circuit breakers are there). This means that, at that time (and if), the hob is working at full power, then in order to “not knock out the plugs”, all other electrical appliances in the apartment must be turned off.

But, with an abundance of electrical household appliances in the house, this is unrealistic. What do home appliances sellers advise us?

“Put a machine more powerful, make copper wiring at home, everything will be fine!”
Yes, nothing will light up in your apartment. But! As we remember, the wires in the entrance are also designed for a certain current strength and, accordingly, power. And if your neighbor downstairs also has a hob, and the neighbor upstairs, and you came home from work at the same time and started cooking dinner, what happens - you have a more powerful machine, they have it too, but the wires of the access riser are not designed for this power, they begin to heat up, the insulation melts, their bare wires touch, a short circuit occurs, the temperature of which tends (well, almost) upwards to infinity (electric welding is, in fact, an adjustable short circuit, and metals are fused to it!). And everything that can burn in the electrical panel (dust, non-certified materials and wires) starts to burn. And everything that cannot burn begins to melt with a terrible whistle. And dinner will have to be eaten dry by candlelight, and, most likely, you will have to invite firefighters to it.

So you should carefully think about the calculation of energy consumption when arranging an apartment.

Hello, dear readers and guests of the Electrician's Notes website.

In this article, I want to analyze a number of reasons that led the access shield to an emergency state.

If you have the same shield, then after reading the article I recommend that you immediately check it for such errors and eliminate them before it's too late.

So, three weeks ago, I changed the old single-phase induction meter SO-I449 (1986) to the electronic two-rate SOE-55 (2014). The counter was installed in this access shield.

I described the scheme of such a shield in an article about. In my case, the shield is similar, only it is arranged not into 3 apartments, but into 4.

View from afar.

I will not talk about the replacement of the counter itself, read the following articles on this topic:

The fact is that this access shield is in disrepair. I can honestly say that while working, I myself was scared to be there.

And now in order.

From my own experience I will say that the introductory machine will have a rated current of 32 (A) or 40 (A).

Choose a manufacturer of automatic machines according to your financial capabilities: you can install expensive ones from ABB or Schneider Electric, or you can get by with inexpensive brands like IEK, EKF or TDM.

2. Replacement of group automata

At present, group automatic machines of the AE-1031 type (single-pole) are installed. They are, so to speak, already obsolete, but that's not even the point. They are not very reliable, when they are loaded (), a large number do not pass the test, especially for thermal protection.

3. Get rid of aluminum wires

Currently, aluminum wires with a cross section of up to 16 sq. mm are prohibited for use in the residential sector (PUE, clause 7.1.34), therefore, installation should be carried out only with copper wires ().

Introductory wires from the terminals of the trunk to group machines can be made with copper wire PV-1 4 sq. mm or 6 sq. mm. You can use other

(Besides ).

4. Replacing the apartment zero block

The old zero block must be replaced with a zero insulated bus for a DIN rail (SHNI), for example, like this.

5. Optional (optional)

If the first four paragraphs are mandatory, then this paragraph is more advisory. I suggested to the hostess that at least a visual inspection of the electrical wiring of the apartment (general condition, heating, etc.), starting from group machines in the floor panel and ending with sockets, switches, junction boxes. It would also not be bad, which are made of old aluminum wires.

6. Floor board connection diagram

Here is a new wiring diagram in the floor board for one apartment - a minimum investment, everything is simple and reliable.

It will turn out something like this.

In the above scheme, it is desirable to install an introductory and group RCD ().

P.S. Everything said above was explained to the owner of the apartment and her neighbors. Unfortunately, no one called me back. A few days ago, I accidentally passed by this shield and did not see any changes there ...

158 comments on the entry “Emergency condition of the access shield. We analyze and eliminate the causes”

Until the thunder breaks out, the peasant cannot cross himself. It is very bad that we are so negligent about our own safety. Relatives have a floor board in a similar state, I will show them this post as a guide to action.
Thanks for the article, I think for many it is relevant.

And what then is the section of the main phase wires and the section of the main PEN? And what should they be?

The proposed zero shank is rubbish. The screws do not hold the wire, they turn out, they break the thread when pulling.

Better the good old black ones of the Soviet type, or modern vag-shaped ones, on a DIN rail.

thanks for the work. we are waiting for new articles

Jora, it's not only "thunder will not strike." Many believe that the recommendations of builders, installers and other specialists are in the nature of "distribute for money." Thanks to the cunning "experts". One lady, whom I perverted in the selection of lamps and fixtures for the winter garden (the aesthetics of lamps, the necessary light wave for photosynthesis and beautiful color reproduction, moisture protection, an expensive ceiling and other delights), shouted to me that I was trying to replace six chandeliers with one lamp. These were long battles, I finished the object with the fourteenth brigade of masters. Now we are best friends. But when you start talking to a person about safety and economy, you often hear that I am trying to make money on them. I say that I'm not trying, I'm making money, but it should be profitable for them.

Contradictory article)) And about the tavern, and about the single-pole at the input, and about the PV-1, which you swell up to bend in a limited space ...

Monsieur Serge, you can have a single-pole introductory machine, you can also have a two-pole one (read the PUE) - what's the problem? And I wrote about the tavern as an example. You can use any bar, even a regular copper bar with a bolted connection. Flexibility in the shield is not required, so I chose PV-1. You can choose a stranded PV-3 (according to modern PuGV), of course, using ferrules. Below in the text of the article, I have indicated a link to a table for the selection of cables and wires, where the recommended brands are indicated.

Unfortunately, in the vast majority of houses built before 2000, you can easily find shields in a similar condition. When you have to do something in such a shield, you work like a sapper in a minefield. As for the use of a shank, I usually, if possible, clamp more than one core under the screw, but bend the core in half, then the wire does not rotate under the screw and the contact is reliable.

This is something else ... My friend went to change the counter for the customer and when he opened the door of the floor shield, the shield literally began to fall out of a special niche in the wall onto him. The acquaintance began to hold it so that it would not fall out completely, while waiting with horror that it would “pop” now. Then he took out a mobile phone with one hand and began to call the management company (the electrician from the Criminal Code was familiar to him, so there was a phone number). And after 20 min. electricians arrived and fixed the shield. A friend kept him all this time. That's it.

I have gas stoves in my house, the allocated power for the apartment is 3 kW. The introductory machine will be forced to put on 25 A, because. the bag usually costs 25 A. But no one cares about such shields. Here are the people with us (when replacing the wiring in the apartment) and they put introductory machines and 40 A each at 16 sq. mm. aluminum phase wire. And they don’t think that they can be phase neighbors of 3-4 apartments. Moreover, zeroing is done in such shields. Does the overhaul of the house include the replacement of phase conductors with copper when entering the house and risers, as well as the installation of new circuit breakers and the TN-C-S grounding system in such panels? At the same time, the allocated power for the apartments will remain the same (after all, it is unlikely that an input cable will be stretched to the entrance of a larger section)? Has anyone experienced major rewiring in old houses and can give me their answer to my questions? Thanks in advance.

I’ve wanted to write here for a long time ... I wanted to catch the author on something ..-it doesn’t work, everything is correct. From the point of view of a colleague, YOU are a Colleague! those situations that you encounter at work and do not find an explanation in theory

Yes, Dmitry, in your photo the shield is still “divinely”. Although you will not envy you. I had to dig in such shields (just dig and nothing else) that you compare your profession with the profession of a miner. One wrong move and ……………! Like a micro surgeon with a scalpel, so are you with your tool in that shield. It even breaks through sweat. In one thing, I remember, probably no one has looked in for a hundred years. catch. Horror.
And about the wire section. And in the houses of the new construction there is absurdity. The inlet to the shield is connected to the PV-1 for 6 sq. mm., jumpers between the machines with the same wire, and the outlet to the electric stove VVG 3x10 sq. mm.

Alexander fully agree this shield is still a fairy tale

And let's share the best creations of housing and communal services fitters)))))))))

And how did you not get electrocuted there?
We also had shields in a deplorable state, since in December 2010 all the electrics were completely changed there.
House type II-68-01, year of construction ~1975, 16 floors, 1 entrance.

I also think that the shield in the photo is very personal. In our entire city, almost all the shields are much, much worse, sometimes you just don’t want to climb (electricians from the housing and communal services know). You go to change the counter as if it were a war - just right to read a prayer. However, what to do? They do not allocate money, because they supposedly do not exist. They don't even want to replace the insidious packets with cheap machines. Here I suggested that at least the zeros from the packets be discarded in the energy sector so that they do not explode. Residents, as a rule, are also not going to change the machines after the counters - they hang like that for forty years, it’s not even always possible to turn them off, what kind of protection is there. On this occasion, I say to the residents: well, you don’t forget to change the toilet, why don’t you think about security - who agrees and who sends.
In general, it is necessary to sort out the shields and change the risers, since the load wires cannot withstand. In the ASU, bugs hang on half of the fuses, so now they are constantly knocking out automatic machines that the energy sales office has hung next to the common house meters. And another misfortune: the heating season was over, hot water was turned off - water heaters began to be bought up in stores. So far we are holding on, but I feel it will start soon.

“And let’s share the best creations of housing and communal services fitters)))))))))” - Yuri, mostly the creations in the shields belong to the residents themselves - for many years they have twisted so many twists and wires with their pliers that sometimes, while everything is fucked up do not bite, and you will not understand (((((((

To a comment from 05/01/2014 at 22:15
Oleg, our house was capitalized, it seems to be about 45 years old, completely new copper cables were laid, and along the risers, and from the ASU through the basement to all the entrances, the bags were replaced with introductory two-pole automatic machines (IEK) for 32A, they replaced the panel wiring. I don’t remember exactly the section of the stand-up cable, but that everything is in the mind is a fact. The branch on the risers is made through piercing clamps - beauty! But, bypassing the requirements of the PUE, they left the four-wire system (TN-C). Interested: why? They say that they made a lot of money. True, such a major electrical repair became possible only thanks to the elder in the house - all the city authorities are afraid of her. Now, if you tell her about TN-C-S and that they had to do it, then I'm sure she will get the fifth wire thrown to her and grounding driven into the lawn. It is a pity, but there are few such necessary people in the country.

Hello. In principle, everything is correct and clear. One question. How will controllers from the power supply organization react to the appearance of a switching device (automatic device) with open contacts to the meter? Maybe a common introductory AV should be put in a box and sealed?

Thank you for the article.
However, the question is: why multiply autos in the shield? Why not put RCBO instead of AV + RCD?. If the screw clamps from this brass-powder rubbish are bad, then throw off, who can, a link to good ones.

"to observe the selectivity of its operation in relation to the introductory protection devices installed in the VRU-0.4 (kV)."

And if you put yourself an introductory machine in the shield for 6 mm for copper (replaced from the main to AB), say, for 40A or 8 mm and 50A? In general, if these currents are not coordinated with the energy supply organization, what threatens the tenant?

It threatens with a fine during any check or “God forbid” an emergency, and the blame can be completely laid on you - I have come across such a case in practice, but I won’t talk about it now - a long story, just know that the value of the introductory machine sets you power supply organization, depending on the allocated power for the house, the cross-section of the main wires and the ratings of the protection devices in the ASP at home.

Dmitry! And if you take pictures of such “beautiful” shields, where should you send them?

To my mail.

I work in an emergency gang, I think I’ll get a used soap dish to capture masterpieces. By the way, where can I look at the mail? Where can I send masterpieces?

Hello! With a copper wire VVG 6 squares to the main (RACK in the shield) make piercing SIP clamps. I would like to hear YOUR opinion. THX.

I got home late from work. I went into the entrance, on the ground floor, as usual, the lighting did not work, and besides, the elevator was standing with open doors somewhere on the upper floors, so I had to stand in silence for a while. And in this silence, I heard a “hiss”, I didn’t have to look for a long time, the “hiss” came from the access shield, looked inside, and, indeed, a “small welding machine” was working there. I knocked on the first door I came across, the hostess came out, I briefly told her about what I had seen, outlined the consequences and left for my floor. But this sparking haunted me, and I decided to report. The first thought at 12 o'clock at night - And where to call? What is the phone number? And I didn’t find anything better than how to call 911, I told everything as it is, as it could be, after the service operator began to offer me to call there or there. After that, I had no desire to do anything further.
There was no fire, but the problem was not fixed either. Some time later, apparently according to the program, electricians came and changed the metering devices and, at the same time, the wiring. While everything is new.
This is how everything is done in Russia, if you want to help, take a screwdriver and pliers and go fix it yourself, or wait for the fire.

Do not take pliers and repair it yourself (otherwise you can get money), but find out the emergency number and call there. As a rule, on the 1st floor in the entrances, such information should be, well, or in the telephone directory.

Hello, yesterday I assembled a shield for a bath, I almost did everything, as you said, but the store did not have a single-core cable of the right color, it was blue and green, I bought a 3-core 6 mm. It was very difficult to separate, of course, because it is Gostov's, there was more free blue cable, I made a phase jumper for them on automatic machines.
For the bath, I took input machines for 25 A, an RCD for 40 A 30 mA, 10 A for light, 2 to 16 for sockets and one reserve. Firm of automatic machines and UZO Lengrand. I can send a photo for soap. Did I do everything right, well, except for the color of course.

Sergey, in order to answer you on the choice of protection devices, you need to know the sections of the outgoing lines for lighting and sockets. You can email me a photo of the shield.

Yuri: Share the best creations of electricians from housing and communal services, and then I will give you the opportunity to calculate how much they work for as a master electrician of housing and communal services.
Oleg: Under the capital, everything changes from the liar itself (panel board) and up to the automatic machines for the apartment. We usually pull PV3 * 25 these are risers from the ASU to the top floor without a break, if the entrance is far from the ASU, then PV3 * 35 in 9-storey buildings. In 5-storey buildings, there stretches PV3 * 16, as a rule, well, or 3 * 25 if it is far from the Liar. The only thing that residents are forced to buy is counters.

Sergey, during major repairs, we also replaced the ASU-0.4 (kV). In short, the project for a 5-storey Khrushchev was the following. For each entrance from the ASU, we stretched the main (risers) with APV aluminum (5x16), then in each apartment we installed an introductory C32 machine, after it an electric meter (you correctly noticed that the new meters were purchased by the consumers themselves) and 2 groups of C16. I plan to write everything about this with more detailed explanations and nuances, but so far there is no free time.

With capital funds, we only lay copper. Although lum 16 square is also possible.

Sergey, or someone in the subject, tell me, but who determines the need to replace the cable from the transformer substation to the ASP at home. loads have increased in recent years. During the overhaul, everything in the risers will be replaced, but will the armored cables withstand, those that are on the ground. Is this taken into account in state structures that draw up projects for the overhaul of houses?

Then the TP also needs to be modernized.

No, this is not taken into account. A certain power is always allocated to the house and it is limited by input protection devices. More often these are fuses, less often circuit breakers. In general, this is a zone of balance delimitation of power grids in our country at least.

Admin: My colleague has a little piece of advice for you. We put two zero bars on one insulator. We connect them together with a piece of wire, so we get a large contact area and the wire is clamped under two screws. More reliable, especially considering that the wiring is made of lum.

And tell me, why is VA instead of VN instead of a “bag”?

VNka will have a higher price than VA. And I don’t know where, but in our city VN this is a custom item. Most likely for these reasons. Yes, and the counter also needs to be protected.

I can’t agree with the HV-load switch, a switching device without a protection function, in other words, the same switch in a modular design, from the point of view of protection, AB is more reliable.

Dmitry, you wanted to write an article about RCDs in the TN-C system ...
I may not have found. By the rules it is forbidden, of course ... but

Where do you connect the ground wire from the washing machine in the shield or nowhere, as you have in the diagram above for sockets and lighting?

Nikolay, put a difavtomat instead of an RCD, and don’t connect the ground in the shield anywhere yet, although if you basically look at how your bath is grounded, it can be easier to throw PE to it

Nikolai, if your residential building has not been transferred to the TN-C-S system, then you do not have a separate main ground conductor, it is combined with a working zero and is called PEN. What to do in such a situation and where to connect the PE conductor from the washing machine - read in.

... that's just the topic)))
a neighbor on the site also connected a washing machine ...
went then looked - the phase through the machine, zero to the apartment zero bus, and the third to the body of the floor shield under the nut.
Crime?

Nikolai, is the trunk 4-wire or 5-wire?

Nikolay. There is no crime here. There is simply a danger that in the event of a break in the neutral wire if it is PEN, a strong potential will come to the instrument cases. For this reason, I usually do not connect the ground wire (if there are not 5 wires in the house), but leave it insulated until reconstruction, and I protect the line diff. protection. Believe the experience of the ZhEKovsky electrician, a zero break is a very big reality.

If Zhekovsky electrician Sergey has the nickname junta, then hello from Andrey Ingener

Andrey Ingener greetings from the junta (Sergey Panagushin)

Dmitry, I don't know which highway..
the house is about 40 years old. the system is most likely TN-C.
Apparently 3 phases and neutral - 4-wire.
I ran my washer through an RCD with a 10 mA leak.
the third wire "hung".

Sergey, are you talking about a break in the common neutral in the floor panel?
I'm not a pro)) but I went to school))
can he burn out? It's like reloading...
And what then are the entrance apartment machines?
or group machines in apartments…

Nicholas, there is no crime here. They just vanished the body of the machine. According to the current rules, it is forbidden to zero electrical equipment cases - now you need to ground them. If you have a TN-C riser, then do not connect the PE conductor until the reconstruction. Read about how to correctly transfer a residential building from the TN-C system to TN-C-S (I explained everything in detail).

Breaking zero - easily! There are many reasons for this: untimely or complete lack of technical maintenance (most often loosening of contact connections), electrician errors (breakage of the neutral main wire when performing any repair or installation work), initially incorrect installation (it is necessary that the main zero, if possible, go to the last floor is not discontinuous, and the branches on the floors were made using special blocks, as in the example in the article), uneven load by phases, etc.

Therefore, a zero break is not a myth at all, but a completely harsh reality - for protection, I recommend single-phase relays UZM-51M or.

Thank you. And another question))
I want to put a 2-pole machine instead of a bag in the shield.
What is the difference between 2P and 1P+N?

…and what do you think is better?

Sometimes manufacturers indicate the marking and some do not

Nikolay, it is better to install a 2P bipolar machine with protection in both poles. In a bipolar machine 1P + N, protection is performed only on the phase. In principle, you can install any, because. the current in both conductors will be the same, but 2P is more reliable in terms of the fact that suddenly for some reason the protection in one pole will not work.

They changed meters in a village in the north of Moscow. At the same time, the input was changed from the pole to the wall from the old aluminum to the vulture.
Houses of four apartments. Each apartment has its own box, in which machines and counters are installed.
And now the yummy - all these boxes were made of wood!
How the whole village has not yet burned down is not known.
Considering that in several apartments, when trying to open the cabinet door, sparks rained down ...

Hello Dmitry, I didn’t know where to write, I’m writing in a topic similar in topic.
I have a few questions, I will try to describe the problem in detail.

There is a cable, copper 4/2.5 mm, three phases and zero.
It is necessary to connect two single-phase heater guns, each with 3300 watts.

Question N1:-

Is it possible to connect one gun to phase A and to zero, the second gun to phase B and to zero with a wire cross section of 2.5mm2?
In phase C there will be several lamps with a total power of ~200 watts;

Question N2:-

Approximately what current will be in the neutral wire when the guns are turned on in two phases (won't it burn out?, because as I understand it, the phase imbalance is not small)

Question N3:-

I beg you to explain in your own words how approximately you can calculate the current in the neutral wire of a three-phase network, for example, when you turn on only one 3300-watt gun, or two guns in different phases of 3300 watts each.

I understand a lot, but I can’t catch up with the phase imbalance and the current in the neutral wire.

Andrey, as I understand it, it’s not worth worrying about this problem. The current in the neutral wire will not be more than the current in any one of the phases, because everything is balanced there. Only under certain conditions can it go beyond the permissible limits - powerful UPS, various rc-lc loads .But in everyday life this rarely happens.
The neutral wire is needed to balance the voltages in phases, to create 220 volts and as a protective conductor.
Vkrainyak, you can put a 4-pole automatic machine and divide n by pe before it.

Edward, thanks for your reply.
I understand about zero.
And about balancing the voltage between the phases, there is such an observation.
I live in the village. The house was recorded in three phases, but the voltage on the lines skewed with the advent of winter: 196v / 210v / 230v.
Although I spread the entire load in the house evenly over all three phases.
I don't know how to understand this.
Suppose one of the neighbors loaded one line, for example, electric heaters. But why then the neutral wire did not balance the voltage remains unclear ...

Edward, good evening.

1. You can.
2. The current in the neutral wire in a three-phase four-wire system is equal to the vector sum of the currents of all phases. Once again, I focus on the expression "vector sum". For example, you have a symmetrical load (currents in all phases are the same). In this case, the current in the neutral wire will be zero or close to zero. If the load on the phases is different, then a current appears in the neutral wire, but its value does not exceed the value of the current in the maximum loaded phase.
3. It is easier to measure than to calculate, because an accurate calculation requires data not only on the power of consumers, but also on all values ​​of currents, linear and phase voltages, shift angles between the current and voltage of each phase, etc. I recommend reading a textbook on TOE, where these points are described in great detail with examples and calculations.

Dmitry, thank you for your answer and understanding of what I wrote off topic.
All the best to you.

Hello! And why and why is the ouzo in terms of rated current more than the automaton protecting it, and not vice versa?

It's a pity. But alas, there are thousands of such shields. And the employees of the Zhek, or rather their owners, basically have one intent and it is in a crispy equivalent. At work, such shields often come to me on mobile residential vans. I repack them according to the forage. Neatly and aesthetically assembled scheme is like sterility in the operating room

Hello dear Admin! First of all, I would like to thank you for such an informative site.
I had a little problem, in my entrance shield for 4 square meters:
1. More than one apartment does not have an introductory machine.
2.Directly on my square. After the counter there are three machines, two workers
One, as I understand it, is a reserve one, from them two wires come into the apartment from the entrance shield
Phase zero, phase zero. And it turns out that all apartment wiring is twisted to these two wires in one box! Although I am not a master of electrical engineering, for some reason this scares me!
3. I'm thinking of removing the automatic machines from the entrance shield, and installing an apartment shield for 4 modules (automatic devices) in the apartment for each room with its own automatic machine.
Please tell me the best way to do this???
Is it possible to leave the old machines in the entrance shield and after them put 4 machines in the apartment????
Or you will have to remove the seal from the meter through the energy supply and start it from the load terminals
New cable (phase zero) to the housing shield ??

Thanks for the comment, but I don’t need to change the meter, the previous owners of it
They replaced it with a new one, but apparently the installation was carried out, as I understand it, by a not very competent electrician. The only problem now is that the meter is sealed and in order for me to lay a new introductory cable in the HF, I need to break the seal from it.
Please let me know where should I go with this issue?
I don't think you should do it on your own.

To remove the seal, you need to contact the power supply company. On payment for e-mail energy is their phones. The introductory machine is obliged to supply you with the Criminal Code for free, this is their area of ​​​​responsibility. But it’s better when they come to install the machine on their own and “agree” with the electrician so that he will supply you with your machine with a nominal value of 40A. The regular one is unlikely to exceed 25A and it is better to install a two-pole automatic machine, I would even say a necessarily two-pole one. And then there are cases you know

The smoker's shield is shorter.

But offhand it looks like nothing at first glance.

Good article! Listen to the article, change the wires and machines in such a shield - this is your own safety. A case from life: I didn’t look into my same shield (although I knew the deplorable state of affairs - the same as at the beginning of the article one on one). Once I change an outlet - I accidentally shorted it out (sparks, a heat wave and singed protective SPECIAL gloves) - and at least henna to the machine - what it is, what it is not))))
After that called — changed. By the way, they helped to save money (they put an RCD + automatic instead of the difavtomat that I asked for at the beginning) - it turned out cheaper for ABB.
Thanks to the author.

Hello. Tell me please. Here in the pictures you connected to the phase wires in the shield with “crackers”, but there are still options to connect under voltage, in rubber gloves, I thought to use the OP-6 clamp, but one jamb is on the 9th floor and the phase wires hang stupidly in the air if screwed on, they can bend and theoretically hook the shield doors. Here is another example of which thread is insulated clamps, but light, so as not to “crackers” for that, it is hemorrhagic to screw in with them under tension

Such a state in interfloor buildings - a branded dowry from the USSR - was blinded as and from anything, the residents and this is a joy. In my house, the situation is even worse, because. Lysva's stationary plates themselves melted, and the wires / contacts melted. And my branch, perhaps, was the only one where there was no charring of the insulation, because. from the very beginning, everything was crimped, and with prokladki, and with sleeves. And the sockets, nevertheless, certainly suffered - not only a lumen, but also old and uncontested at the beginning of the socket. The output with sockets was simple - a normal plug with a normal cable was stuck into it once, everything else went only through extension cords for a different number of places, but already of the Euro-type.

Michael:
08/10/2015 at 02:28
Why is OP-6 not suitable for you? They can safely be connected under voltage and without any gloves.

Good evening. With pushed with similar shields, they asked to make a detour and preventive maintenance. Was wildly surprised by the state of many shields. It was Akhtung)) decided with the chairman of the HOA to fix the emergency and gradually redo everything. In your modernized shield, I see the terminals isolated on the DIN rail (top in the photo), I can’t understand how they are connected there, because four wires should sit on the same bus, but under different bolts, as it was originally, or am I thinking something wrong, tell me?

Sergey, before altering the circuit, zero for each apartment went through a batch switch to the meter. Naturally, the “bag” was dismantled during the modernization process, and a two-pole automatic machine was installed in its place. Thus, zero for each apartment is taken with a separate wire from the main zero and goes first to a two-pole machine, and from there to the meter. From the counter, zero goes to the zero bus N. There are three of them in the shield, i.e. each apartment has its own zero bus (in no case should they be connected to each other). You can also see the terminals in the upper right corner - they were installed due to short wires going to the apartments, the apartment wires simply were not long enough and additional power terminals had to be installed, both on phase and on zero. If the wires have a sufficient margin, then it is advisable to connect them directly to group machines and zero buses.

You were misled by the fact that the presented photograph and the diagram in the article are somewhat different. In the diagram, two group machines are installed per apartment, and in the photo there is only one. There may be two or three. The essence of the scheme does not change from this.

Recently I saw a spark with a glow effect in the ASU on the first floor of my house (the house itself is 16 floors). The glow is behind one of the current transformers (they are most likely for counters), they happen when the elevators start moving, and nothing special.)) It started the other day, I even made a video on this topic.
Isn’t zero already slowly burning out there (although it’s unlikely)?

MotoBiker1995, where exactly does it sparkle? At the junction of the current transformer and the housing? Can you send me a video - I'm interested to see it?

Tell me, what can I replace or is it still possible to find an old-style isolated zero bus? It's just that in the shield there is a need to replace only and, but there is no place at all. One bus goes to two apartments, the second to two more. One wire comes to the bus from the meter and three from the apartment (respectively, two wires for one clamp), according to the PUE it is written that way. Here's how to solve this problem, power terminal blocks seem to be not an option? Thanks in advance. Photos of shields sent to you by e-mail ( [email protected])

Well, right there is my shield in the photo. For 20 years of living in my apartment, I replaced the entire internal piping from aluminum to copper, a batch switch, automatic machines for 2 circles. installing a sh-shaped brass jumper. Well, on the eve of New Year, the local Criminal Code brought a notice to replace the meter. I changed it with my own hands. After reading this article, I thought about replacing the machines with modern

Why exactly yours, sho for proprietary raids!!!??? There are millions of such shields in the EksSSSR and a wheelbarrow.

Once they called me to check why the machines in such a shield were knocked out by themselves, I arrived, was horrified, decided to measure power surges, then the probes on the tester evaporated! These shields are a dangerous business, everything is on snot, for often there is no protection and directly, everything has been redone. Be careful!

From WHAT did the probes evaporate, from measuring the voltage with a tester?

From the fact that the phase goes to the machines and zero to the frame of which they are screwed.

And what, from this arc arose and the probes evaporated? You at least do not scare, otherwise the people will be afraid to measure the voltage.

I'm telling you, be careful!

... for a long time banging his head against the wall ... In general, he left the answer ... (c)

In floor shields, often either probes or screwdrivers evaporate. In old switchboards, extreme caution is needed, nothing can be relied upon, not on automatic machines, not on insulation, even on the shield, not zero, but a phase is connected with a self-tapping screw! And immediately inspect the main wires, recently a screw stuck out of the "nut" of such a wire at a distance of 3 mm from the floor zero, one awkward movement and I scared 2 apartments with fireworks.

Tell us in detail how the probe evaporates when measuring voltage! The people have the right to know the truth. All!

“MotoBiker1995, where exactly is it sparkling? At the junction of the current transformer and the housing? Can you send me a video - it's interesting to watch?
I didn’t look here for a long time, but I’ll answer: the connection to the transformer sparked, everything was fixed there. I'll post a video later when I find it.
Transformers are for meters.

“Tell me in detail how the probe evaporates when measuring voltage! The people have the right to know the truth. All!”
Yes, you are an atheist dad ...))) Walk around with an electrician, you might see the moment when the probes of testers and screwdrivers evaporate in old shields.
If you didn’t see something, didn’t hear it, didn’t feel it, it doesn’t mean that this is allegedly “no” ...

This is not an answer. Why should I go with an electrician? You wrote it yourself, and explain it yourself, if you don’t know, don’t torture the keyboard. Extreme cases - a drunk electrician, a blind electrician, an illiterate electrician, do not disclose bad and twisted probe wires, they write it on another site.
Once again, a normal voltmeter, any, in normal hands with a normal head on top, does not spark, does not short, does not create sparks and does not swear at the same time.

The most interesting thing in such a shield will begin when the contact of the terminal holding the phase weakens and starts to heat up. And on top of it lies another phase wire.

It will be no less interesting in a similar situation with zeros on one pint, but with two apartments powered by different phases.

What can happen in this case?

I am going to redo the wiring in the apartment of the old panel house from aluminum to copper. But the supply to my meter from the entrance will still remain aluminum. How can I replace this wire too? How to formulate a request to the housing cooperative board, which is responsible for electrical wiring? Can I hire an electrician myself to replace this cable? Or can only an electrician with whom the housing cooperative cooperates do this?

Julia, this wire is part of the riser and will be replaced during the overhaul of the electrical wiring in the house.

Julia, nevertheless, you can do it yourself, or rather with the help of a hired electrician. In the housing cooperative, explain that you want to replace the supply wires from the main line to the meter, and that at a certain date and time you will need to turn off the voltage from this riser.

Good day! Yes, colleagues, opening the floor shield of an old house, at least to some extent, are already preparing mentally. But when you open the floor shield of a five-year-old house, this is of course nonsense. It seems that the diagram is pasted, and when you turn off the machines, you understand that it is here to divert eyes. And most importantly, the cross section of the wires is in no way designed for the rated load. Even in the project, the wire section is no longer enough. To whom you do not turn, they shrug.

I ran into trouble over the weekend. The light went out in the apartment.
I called an electrician from the Criminal Code and it turned out that the phase wire at the input to the meter
was poorly tightened. Of course, he pulled everything up, but hinted that everything needed to be changed.

House 90-year release, all on aluminum, 4 wires. There is no protective earth.
Only in the kitchens, a 3-wire wire is connected to one outlet.
And then, this socket, or rather a place for it with wires, was discovered under a layer of mastic during the repair. She was not connected to the shield either.
The wires were simply laid in the shield at the back. We ended up adding a washing machine.

But that's not the point. After the advice of an electrician, I began to look for information on how to do it right. And ended up here, on this great site, with this great article.

Everything seems to be clear, but I would like to clarify some points.
- in the PEN article, the wire through the machine and the meter is connected to a zero isolated bus under the DIN rail. I now have a tap from the interfloor PEN wire rigidly screwed onto the shield body.
How to be? After all, this shield serves two apartments.

Julia Vladimir Admin (Dmitry? As far as I learned) tomorrow I'll try to take a photo and throw in what the electricians of the ZhSK or UK should do. Pavel, judging by the picture you have there, it’s not that the horse wasn’t lying around ... But he wiped himself with insulating tape))) I haven’t seen such metal corrosion for a long time. And the shield must be grounded (during the construction of houses in the USSR, 6 mm steel wire is usually welded) and zeroed again. And the earth stretched from the TP. So it's up to you to decide how your apartment will be wired. Those. zero and earth will always be separate or united. Only wires of the corresponding color must be output to the shield, so that there is no doubt, well, they must be connected in accordance. And in this "noodles" it is difficult to understand who is hu. In email the stove (in the socket) can easily change places zero and protective for (zeroing, grounding) in apartments in floor boards everything is connected.

depressing another. what kind of communication system you can’t take from us - everywhere there is a hodgepodge of wires, clumsy twists, etc. open boxes with open lids, etc. . the conclusion is a very low culture of service everywhere. as a result, when a specialist like the author of the article offers to put things in order, he is perceived as a “money extortionist”. sadly

yes, no need to elaborate. the supply to the meter you most likely goes from a traffic jam or machine to your apartment. there is a small section of cable. in extreme cases, you can refer, as indicated in the article, that it is forbidden to bring an aluminum core of less than 16 squares to living quarters. the only thing is that such work should be carried out by an authorized electrician, since he must seal your meter after replacing the wire and, accordingly, must have the right to do so

I want to add to the previous comment that if you are replacing the wiring from the shield to the meter, you should install an introductory machine in front of the meters

According to the PUE in PEN com. The device can not be installed, but you offer?

Hello to the author and residents of this beautiful blog!
Please help me. It's time to replace the counter in the floor board. I am attaching a photo. The packet box burned out and everything was connected directly, even before I moved into this house, and that was 13 years ago. The zero tires fell apart. The neighbors put a C63 machine gun in the one-room apartment, two enter the two-room apartment !!! input cables. For a three-ruble note, there is c40 on the phase wire ... It's getting shorter and dreary.
In the UK, a power engineer, a young guy, can’t even tell me the allocated power ... I forgot to say, we have an electric stove and three AB 32 + 16 + 16 Stove, light, sockets.
The wiring in the apartment has not changed yet, luminous from birth, help with an action plan. As I understand it, it is necessary to make two taps, phase-zero, and ??? Automatic or diff? What is the best counter to buy? Further with machine guns, leave the same, or reduce, due to the old age of the lumine? I will not do it myself, but I want to know the steps for repair. There are no intelligent specialists in the housing office, I tried to communicate when replacing lamps in the corridor ...
Something like that…

Here is another schematic

The whole floor is on the same phase, is that normal?

It's not normal, really. And even more abnormal is that pile of wires in the shield, a nightmarish creepiness.

Surfactant with you and do not argue ...

Something with time in the blog, the number matches, but hours and minutes, no ...

Roman, and who argues? So, light chatter on topics close to electrics, and nothing more. Yeees???

Surfactant, not really, I'm waiting for Dmitry to give good advice on eliminating this indecency)))

You are waiting for Dmitry to give you all the points of the PUE and so on. regulations? One advice is to turn off the risers, cut off everything and make new wires, competently and beautifully.

In general, PAV is right, I would have done so if the neighbors on the site supported such an idea. And then often the opinion converges in the phrase “it works, why go there and change something.” The simplest option, instead of, as they have recently been called, "exploding" bags, suggests itself, either an introductory machine or a load switch. I am for the first option.

If the management company cannot tell you the allocated power for the apartment, then the choice of the denomination is up to you. A single-pole machine for 50 (A) will be quite enough. The cross section from the main to the machine and from the machine to the counter and outgoing machines should be made with a copper wire with a cross section of 16 sq. mm. Then install three machines on the DIN rail. We will consider the installation of an RCD or difavtomatov, as well as some kind of automation (voltage relay, digital voltmeter, etc.) later, because the main thing is to correctly choose the ratings of the automata for all lines, and for this you need to accurately determine the cross section of the outgoing lines to the apartment .

By zero. There are several options for the scheme, depending on the selected devices. We'll discuss later. According to the counter, direct connection with a rated current of 0-60 (A) or 0-80 (A). The number of tariffs is optional, but the two-tariff one will probably be more profitable. The manufacturer is Mercury or Energomera, but this does not matter.

In principle, the fact that the entire floor “hangs” on one phase is not so scary, although the diagram shows power from different phases. Apparently, when they did the installation, the distribution of loads was taken not by apartment, but by floor. The main thing is that all three phase lines pass through your floor, which means that in case of congestion of any phase, you can always reconnect to a less loaded phase.

Dmitry, thanks for not leaving me alone with my problem.
According to the distribution of phases and the choice of the meter, I understood everything, unprincipled.
About a wire with a cross section of 16 squares, is this probably a typo? Probably talking about 6k?
I didn’t understand about a single-pole machine at the input ... Why not a two-pole one?
And what characteristic (A/B/C/D) should it have?
Protection relay, before the counter should be set?
According to the cross section of outgoing lines to the apartment: light-2, sockets-2.5, stove-6 (everything is luminous).
By the way, in the initial message, I wrote that I have three machine guns 32-16-16, I was mistaken, 40-16-16 will be correct.
There is also such a question, due to the impossibility of carrying out repairs in the apartment at the moment, is it possible to be powered from the stove. If so, what is needed for this, to create a mini shield in the kitchen?
And immediately a question about grounding, you indicate everywhere that it is impossible to ground to the shield. But if I don’t confuse (three wires come to the stove), the stove is exactly grounded to the shield.

From the stove I wanted to power the washing machine, microwave and kettle.

If in turn, you can, if everything at once, it will be too much. As for the earth, there is a similar picture in my house / apartment - for the stove, the earth is taken from the shield, but this wire cannot be disconnected, unlike the zeros, which are turned off by the accounting HV.
From the same shield and on the SM, I took a conditional ground, also non-switchable.

There is no difference whether the “ground” is disconnected or not, the fact remains that you have a TN-C grounding system and, in fact, this is not grounding, but zeroing, about the shortcomings of which I talked about in an article about. Unless there is a separate PE bar on the floors! This can be easily verified by carefully examining the floor boards and ASU at home.

About the machine 50 (A) and the cross section of 16 sq. mm is not a typo. For clarity, I attach a table (see below).

A single-pole machine because the TN-C system, which means tearing the combined N and PE, is not recommended for security purposes (forbidden by the Rules). Unless it is again confirmed that a separate PE bar does not go through the floors!

According to the machines, you can set C at the input, at the outgoing B, but again, ideally, you need to know the short-circuit currents,. Because it is possible in terms of selectivity that the option with characteristic C will pass for all automata.

Install a voltage relay after the meter, otherwise you may not be able to sign the act of commissioning the meter. Here .

I’m not yet considering the issue of powering from the electric stove line, I still need to deal with the above.

Dmitry, PAV hello. I am happy to continue our conversation.
According to the cross section, I am attaching a photo, I have a suspicion that the site cuts the quality of the photo, but in my opinion it is even clear that the wire is thinner on the left. When measuring, I used not only my wires, but also the wires of my neighbors. There is no error. One diameter is 1.6, two are 1.8, and 2.8. There is no micrometer, but a vernier caliper with an error of 0.05 shows without problems on one of the water wires 1.6.

Forgot to attach a photo.

About the machine and the cross section of 16 squares, I understand. About the relay after the counter, I understand.

About the phase-zero loop, they ask from 8 to 10. I can’t cope with such expenses now, I’m a mortgage lender.
Is it possible to get by with the empirical method?

The bathroom here was welded to some corner, sticking out of the wall. Maybe earth?

Roman, your circuit is small and hard to read, but on the Admin's diagram at the beginning of the topic, it is perfectly clear that both the phase and zero are torn by two-pole HVs at the same time, for example, 06/21 and 03/23, they are simply not designated normally as a single product.
Your switchboard may well sit on the fittings of the house, or a bus that runs throughout the riser, and there is probably land there. And this is already enough for safety, so they thought then. As far as the land has been preserved, it is necessary to check, but it is unlikely that it will be different.
As for the section, there was aluminum and 2.0, and 2.5 mm in the early days, 2.0 was pulled for lighting, 2.5 - sockets, I met this.

Roman, what kind of office is this, which asks 8-10 thousand for measuring the phase-zero loop ?! At this rate, I would have been a millionaire by now. There, in fact, you need to do 3-4 measurements at the farthest points, a maximum of about 1000 rubles will turn out.

By automatics. You have automatic machines with denominations 40-16-16 installed in your shield. Considering the cross-sections of aluminum wires (6-2.5-2 sq. mm) and the conditional tripping currents of the automata, it is necessary to set the ratings 25-16-10 (A).

So, today we have machine 50 (A) at the input and outgoing machines 25, 16 and 10 (A). Well, if it is impossible to measure the PFO, then I would set the characteristic C on the input, and B on the outgoing ones. I will explain. Without knowing the short-circuit currents, it is difficult to make a choice according to the characteristic, but given the old lines, aluminum wires and the current state of the electrical equipment, it is better to play it safe and install outgoing machines with characteristic B, because. short circuit currents in your case can be small.

Next, you need to resolve the issue with RCDs or difavtomatami. I would do the following. The sockets have their own RCD 25 (A), 30 (mA), and the stove and lighting have their own RCD 63 (A), 30 (mA). As an option, instead of automatic machines, difautomatic machines can be installed on each line, this is at your discretion. Then their settings for the rated current will be 25, 16 and 10 (A), and the leakage currents will be 30 (mA).

By grounding, or rather zeroing. There is nothing to change until there is a reconstruction in the house, so we leave everything as it is. I talked about this in more detail in my article about.

By automation. Decide for yourself, but at least there should be a voltage relay in the shield!

Questions?!

Dmitry, lots of questions)))
According to the office, these are the labs that I googled on the net, they either take volumes, or at a minimum for departure. If you tell me someone in Moscow for a thousand, I will be glad.
Do you need a general fire RCD in the shield?
I repeat about the kitchen, I wanted to build a mini shield from connecting the stove. There is a washing machine, a microwave with a kettle and a TV on one block of outlets.
I would like to unload it evenly.

On automation. You wrote that the minimum is the presence of a voltage relay ...
What else should be?

Roman, I can’t tell you about the Moscow laboratories. A fire RCD is not needed, an RCD on outgoing lines will suffice. There are a lot of automations that can be installed. Voltage relay, voltmeter, ammeter, phase lights and even a spark protection device (new on our market). It all depends on your desire and possibilities. But as I said, you definitely can’t do without a voltage relay - this is a vital device.

For an additional shield. On the stove you have 6 aluminum. Install the shield in the place where this cable comes. You feed the stove as before - directly, plus from this line you connect, for example, two automatic machines 16 (A). And already from these machines you feed the necessary socket blocks with a new copper cable. I can tell you more, but you need to know more exactly what you want to do.

Dmitry, our automatic machine from 40A has become 25Amp. Although 6k holds 32A. Is it due to the lack of measurements, and the condition of the wires?
As for the voltage relay, four years after your review of the RV32A, do you still recommend it? And will it fit my needs?

By the kitchen.
Now from the stove, directly, without any ouzo and differentials, a washing machine is connected.
A TV, a microwave, a kettle and a small coffee machine hang on a light line. There is a wiring at the top, I just lowered the socket block down. And now the light from 16A has become 10A, it won’t pull after all ...

This is sad.

Dmitry, thanks for another sensible video on YouTube. Put a thumbs up)))
Here's another question related to the previous recommendations. According to automatic machines, the characteristics are (C) and (B), and what kind of RCD do I need, (A) or (AC)?

Roman, I have the same floor shield. I strongly advise you not to connect anything else (kettle, microwave, etc.) to the 6-square aluminum cable that goes to the stove. I did it this way, and as a result, zero from this cable burned out in the floor shield. Now I have to pull a new cable from the shield to the kitchen, put a new block in the shield for zeros.

And, in general, Roman, don’t bother much if you are a mortgage lender and apartment renovation is not expected soon. On the cable for the stove (6 square aluminum), put the machine in 25 amperes. He will keep him safe. You don't use all the burners and the oven at the same time, do you? A 40 amp machine for such a cable is a bit too much (initially there was a Soviet black 16A machine). Put 10A on the light. For sockets 16A. Separately lay a normal copper cable 3x2.5 (VVGng-ls or NYM) from the 16 amp machine from the floor shield to the kitchen. Make a couple of outlets for the washing machine, microwave and kettle. For peace of mind, put an introductory machine on the apartment at 32A. At the very least, it will protect wires in 6 squares of aluminum from the general switch to your counter, and from the counter to your machines. In total, you will get 5 machine guns in the shield. Must fit.

That's what I wanted to do.

A puncture for sip can not be used?

A voltage relay is needed. that's a fact

5 years have passed, I wonder what has changed there or not?